December 01, 2004

Amy Goodman interview of Jesse Jackson and Cliff Arnebeck

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:51:10 -0800

From: John Calvert

Subject: Jesse Jackson & Cliff Arnebeck interview on DN!


AMY GOODMAN: Reverend Jesse Jackson, what have you been doing in Ohio?
Why do you feel that a recount could change the outcome of the
presidential election?

JESSE JACKSON: Well, this is November 30 -- 28 days later and the
election has not been certified. The judge will not order a recount
because there has not yet been a count. Therefore, we need a full and
thorough federal investigation. For example, in the spring of the year,
a provisional ballot, you could vote any place in the county. By
September, by November, Secretary of State had shifted it to you only
vote in the precinct, and with some precincts changing, it created big
frustrations. So 155,000 ballots haven’t still been counted. There are
many thousands not yet processed -- overcount and undercount. You have
a case in Warren, Ohio where they declared a Homeland Security alert. I
mean no building in Warren is over three stories high, yet they locked
out the press and independent observers. Another case that I found to
be astounding which I am sure Cliff can talk about, is a black woman,
Ellen Connally ran for state Supreme Court judge. In Cuyahoga County,
in Cleveland where she is best known, Kerry got 170,000 more votes.
Elsewhere in the state, around Hamilton County, Cincinnati, Butler,
Clermont, where she is least well-known, she got 190,000 more votes
than Kerry. Now, that smells. We need a thorough investigation with
forensic computer experts to see were there any tampering in those
machines where there's no ability to do an audit trail. Then we need to
consider the recount. We first need to have a count.

AMY GOODMAN: I am looking at Juan Gonzalez’s piece. This may coincide
with what you are talking about. He says in the fourth ward on
Cleveland's east side, two fringe presidential candidates did
surprisingly well. In precinct 4F located at Benedictine High School,
Martin Luther King Drive, Kerry received 293 votes, Bush 21. Michael
Perutka, the candidate for the ultra-conservative Anti-immigrant
Constitutional Party, an amazing 215 votes. That many black votes for
Perutka is about as likely as all those Jewish votes for Buchanan in
Florida's Palm Beach County in 2000. He says in virtually all the
precincts that he looked at, Kerry's vote was lower than Al Gore's in
2000 even though there was a record turnout in the black community this
time and even though blacks voted overwhelmingly for Kerry. Cliff
Arnebeck, can you explain further what this pattern is? Is it a

CLIFF ARNEBECK: Yes, there's a pattern of extensive irregularity in the
Ohio election. And in contrast to the conventional election count
that's going on now, we have exit polls which are conducted by news
organizations, hiring professionals using scientific methods to count
the votes and those exit polls showed Kerry winning the Ohio election.
So, when you compare those exit polls with the counting that's been
going on through this partisan process, it seems pretty clear that we
have a serious issue here about who won this election. And the
conclusion, drawn on the day after the election, that Mr. Bush won the
election, is very much in doubt.

AMY GOODMAN: Reverend Jackson, Democracy Now! just went to Spain and
Italy and on one of the main TV stations called RAI in Rome, the
interviewer asked about the election and I said, “Well, really we don't
really know who won.” And his eyebrows raised very high and he said,
“Excuse me. Kerry conceded. Haven't you heard?” Now what about this,
Reverend Jackson? What about Kerry immediately conceding?

JESSE JACKSON: The early concession betrayed the trust of the voters.
We have a moral obligation and a legal obligation to see that every
vote counts and whether Kerry gets the most votes or not, we must break
a precedent of fraudulent elections. For the Secretary of the State, in
fact, can be the co-chair of a campaign and run the process -- that's
like a team owner of a baseball team being the umpire at game seven of
the World Series. You can't be a team owner and be a referee at the
same time. You can't have Katherine Harris and Ken Blackwell as chairs
of the campaign and in charge of the process. It taints the credibility
of the process at the very beginning.

AMY GOODMAN: What about the $51 million that John Kerry has? The
largest amount of money a presidential candidate has had after an
election. He's not in the red, he's in the black. The biggest amount of
money any presidential candidate has had in history, well over half
what George Bush has. He could use that money for a recount. Instead --
the poor Green Party is raising the money.

JESSE JACKSON: You could take a couple million dollars of that money
and hire Cliff Arnebeck’s law firm and partners and the Common Cause
lawyers who are credible and bright and able lawyers. You could you
take a couple million dollars and put a renewed light on Ohio. That can
determine not only the outcome of this election but the future of
democratic elections. We have to go beyond this matter. We really need,
which we do not have, we need the Constitutional right to vote for
President federally protected. We do not have the Constitutional right
to vote for President. We only have the state's right to vote. We asked
50 state separate and unequal elections within those states, Ohio for
example, 88 counties, each running their own scheme. We must now go to
another level. Not only should we count these votes, we need an
amendment to the Constitution. We need -- all Americans need the
Constitutional, individual right, federally protected right to vote for
the President.

AMY GOODMAN: Reverend Jackson, have you talked to John Kerry about this?

JESSE JACKSON: I did talk with him about the election and he first
thanked us for our continued effort, but will not take a public
position, nor offer any resources at this time, substantial resources
to help make it happen. So we are doing it on our will.

AMY GOODMAN: So what's he doing with his $51 million?

JESSE JACKSON: I do not know. It make think so much that when the
reason [inaudible] those that are fighting: the Greens, the
Libertarians, and those who have found common ground. Dr. King got the
Nobel Peace Prize and Lyndon Johnson gave King a White House reception.
He said, “I thank you very much for the reception, but all Americans
need the right to vote.” Johnson said, “Dr. King, I like you very much.
You know I do, I like you. I regard you highly. But I can't render the
right to vote unilaterally, I just can’t. I wish could, but I can't.
The bad news is that Congress can, but won't. So you can't have the
right to vote.” So the President talked, so we went to Selma, the
common people rose up. And there again, the common people must rise up
and demand that their vote count. So to me, this campaign in Ohio is
not so much about Kerry as it is about Fannie Lou Hamer. It’s about
Medgar Evers. It’s about Schwerner, Goodman, and Chaney. It’s about the
people's will to democracy. If people can fight [inaudible] for
democracy in the Ukraine, we can do that here.

AMY GOODMAN: Thank you very much for being with us.

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